Chris and Jenny Lee: “We’re committed to an open, conversational approach to family life and one which affirms that our children are loved by God"

Chris, can you tell us how you became the ‘internet’s favourite vicar’?

Well by accident really. It’s a long story but I was a missionary in Tanzania for a few years and was actually ordained out there before coming back and studying theology at Ridley Hall, Cambridge which is I met Jenny – she was studying theology at another Cambridge college. We got married and then I became a curate at HTB in London and then came to St. Saviours in Chiswick. I started doing some social media stuff on YouTube with my brother-in-law and eventually once I had a little bit of a platform I wondered if I could use it for the betterment of the kingdom. At that time, you could only post 60 second videos on Instagram, so I thought I’d just condense whatever I had been preaching on that Sunday or whatever I had been thinking about in the course of my day and record it. There was no conscious strategy, there was no planning, and this was before lockdown before everyone went online before any other church leaders I saw online, so I was kind of spearheading it and pioneering it.

So, this this has taken off but you’re still a full-time vicar and a full-time husband and a full-time father of three. So how do you balance all those things?

Primarily my role is a vicar. It’s what I do, what I love and feel called to. The online ministry is an extension to that. Every now and again people come to St. Saviour’s because they know me online, but I don’t lean into that, it’s not a strategic planned vision, I just do what I think I should in the moment. So, I don’t promote St. Saviour’s online, and I don’t see the online space as my church, it’s an overflow of what I do day to day anyway.

In all of that how do you carve out time for your family?

It’s quite hard to answer when you’re in it - we’re very much community based people, so we see church as family and not so much as job. So, we had people living with us until we had our children and then since then we’ve still been very invested in hospitality and friendship but that that does come with a cost, and I think as a clergyman there can be a natural imbalance, so discernment and wisdom in that is definitely something we need.

I feel like I’m still learning from my parents and their faith

Both my parents were scientists and because of that I feel that they very much encouraged questions in the home and encouraged us to really take ownership of our own kind of faith. I feel that they always allowed for our journey of faith as children to be a real thing - that our opinions and our thoughts were valid and to be supported.

Within that context my parents did nurture faith in deliberate ways. So, we would pray as a family and also before bedtimes and we’d have our own little Bible notes. I guess they also took a very active role in our wider lives, for example we weren’t just allowed to watch what we liked on TV, they could be quite strict on some rules.

I feel like I’m still learning from my parents and their faith. I feel like as a child I assumed that their faith was quite a set thing. But now as an adult I can engage more with their journey of faith, I appreciate that things change, that they change as people.

Jenny if you could thank your parents for one thing, what would it be?

This is quite a practical thing, but I had very difficult pregnancies, and I really feel like I couldn’t have done it without my parents. They basically moved in with us for a couple of months each time – so I thank them for that, but really, I guess, if I can have two things instead, I thank them for giving me a clear Christian foundation, a solid, safe, loving Christian environment in which to grow up in.

If I could thank my parents for one thing it would be that openness and the freedom they gave us

Chris, what is your overriding sense of what it was like growing up in your family?

My family’s Irish, very loud and very opinionated. I’ve got identical twin brother and two sisters. Me and my brother were pretty energetic; it was pretty full on. At one point when my aunt and uncle were looking after us, we got banned from the bank because of the chaos we were causing. I’ve since been diagnosed with ADHD which kind of makes sense now.

So, we were a big family, there was a good number of us and when talking nothing was off the table. We grew up knowing we could tell our parents anything but vice versa too, they’d tell me I was being an idiot but then they’d always be there for me whatever.

I also remember my mother coming in and praying over us at night, she’d always stroke our heads and say the Lord’s prayer and then she’d have this Irish prayer that she said, which was really beautiful. And I remember feeling really loved and safe at that point.

If I could thank my parents for one thing it would be that openness and the freedom they gave us, that I could go to them with anything and they would be there for me; I appreciate that, the sense that whatever happens, you’re family and we love you.

YouTube and screen time is definitely a challenge for us

Now you have three children of your own, tell us a bit about your family, how it works and what the culture is like.

We’re loving the stage our family is at. Our children are 9, 6 and 2, so it’s pretty full on but we love that. We run around and play with them and have as much fun as we can. Living in London means you can’t easily let them choose independently what to do, you have to lean into what London is like and what it has to offer and be deliberate in getting out into the wider city and engaging in what’s going on – the risk is that otherwise children in London might end up in front of the TV all the time.

We try to make sure that carve out family time, in addition to going out and playing about we’re all together for mealtimes and the TV is off and we say grace and sometimes if they’re feeling brave, they’ll say grace too. It’s an important space and time for us.

We always pray with our kids and for them at bedtime and before we go on a long journey. We also read children’s Bibles with them and have Christian children’s books that we read – though now we are writing our own reading others feels different as we’ve always got one eye on what people are writing about and how they’re doing it and how that might be improved!

We’ve also got caught out sometimes when something is presented on TV which isn’t something we’ve had a conversation about, so that can present difficulties – we’re still figuring out how to navigate that

And what have you found most challenging as Christian parents?

YouTube and screen time is definitely a challenge for us. We’ve banned YouTube and deleted the app from our TV because that was an easy win for us. We’ve decided that they won’t get smartphones until 14 or something like that, depending on where we are with controls and safeguards by then. We’ve also got caught out sometimes when something is presented on TV which isn’t something we’ve had a conversation about, so that can present difficulties – we’re still figuring out how to navigate that.

Also, we’re thinking through when to have conversations with our kids about some of the more controversial issues and that’s not always easy to navigate. We want to talk with them about some issues before they come up on Netflix or at school but equally, we don’t want to do that before they are ready which is especially difficult when you have a range of ages as we do.

Whatever happens though we’re committed to an open, conversational approach to family life and one which affirms that they are loved by God even when they make mistakes or do something they shouldn’t. So, we don’t look to call them out on things but when they do stuff that’s wrong we draw them in and talk it through with them.

Read more:

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Janie Oliver: ‘Parenting definitely won’t be what you expect but if you let yourself, you’ll find joy and magic in places you won’t anticipate.’

If you could give advice to yourself the day before your first child was born, what would it be?

Chris: Being positive is crucial so maybe something like: you’re going to do great; you’ll be a good mum; you’ll be a good dad. Also, keep going. It will be tough, but it’s beautiful. I love our kids; I love raising kids – when I meet people who say they don’t want kids, I’m really like, wow, why not? What other thing in the world would you willingly give your life for? And you haven’t even met them? What other person or creature in life will puke on you, wee on you, keep you up and sleep deprive you and torture you in that way and you’ll still love them more deeply than you can imagine. Kids are just as such a such a gift in that way.

Jenny: I’d say talk to people rather than listen to the internet. When you become a parent and face difficulties, the temptation is to search online for the answer, but then whatever the question, people are really divided into different camps. Whether it is breastfeeding vs bottle feeding, or how and when to wean, or sleep routines, talk to people you know face to face because people are so much kinder face to face than in the majority of online discussions. So, reach out and find face to face community.

Chris and Jenny Lee live in Chiswick where Chris is Vicar of St. Saviour’s church. Jenny is a playwright, producer and author and is also the primary caregiver for their three children. In addition to being a vicar, Chris has an online ministry that reaches hundreds of thousands of people especially through his famous 60 second sermons.